[MC-5169] Huge FPS drop in areas with a lot of signs and hanging signs Created: 21/Dec/12  Updated: 24/Dec/24

Status: Reopened
Project: Minecraft: Java Edition
Component/s: None
Affects Version/s: Minecraft 1.4.5, Minecraft 1.4.6, Minecraft 1.4.7, Minecraft 1.5, Snapshot 13w11a, Minecraft 1.6.2, Minecraft 1.7.1, Minecraft 1.7.4, Minecraft 14w21b, Minecraft 14w27b, Minecraft 14w28b, Minecraft 14w29b, Minecraft 14w30c, Minecraft 14w32a, Minecraft 14w33c, Minecraft 14w34a, Minecraft 14w34b, Minecraft 14w34d, Minecraft 1.8, Minecraft 1.8.1, Minecraft 1.8.2-pre1, Minecraft 1.8.3, Minecraft 1.8.4, Minecraft 1.8.5, Minecraft 1.8.7, Minecraft 1.8.8, Minecraft 15w36c, Minecraft 15w37a, Minecraft 15w38a, Minecraft 15w38b, Minecraft 15w39b, Minecraft 15w40b, Minecraft 15w41b, Minecraft 15w42a, Minecraft 15w43b, Minecraft 15w44a, Minecraft 15w45a, Minecraft 15w46a, Minecraft 15w47c, Minecraft 15w49b, Minecraft 1.8.9, Minecraft 15w50a, Minecraft 15w51b, Minecraft 16w02a, Minecraft 16w03a, Minecraft 16w04a, Minecraft 16w05a, Minecraft 16w06a, Minecraft 16w07a, Minecraft 1.9 Pre-Release 1, Minecraft 1.9 Pre-Release 3, Minecraft 1.9, Minecraft 1.9.1 Pre-Release 2, Minecraft 1.9.1, Minecraft 1.9.2, Minecraft 16w14a, Minecraft 16w15a, Minecraft 16w15b, Minecraft 1.9.3 Pre-Release 1, Minecraft 1.9.3 Pre-Release 2, Minecraft 1.9.3 Pre-Release 3, Minecraft 1.9.4, Minecraft 16w20a, Minecraft 16w21a, Minecraft 16w21b, Minecraft 1.10 Pre-Release 1, Minecraft 1.10, Minecraft 1.10.2, Minecraft 16w32b, Minecraft 16w33a, Minecraft 16w36a, Minecraft 16w38a, Minecraft 16w39a, Minecraft 16w39b, Minecraft 16w40a, Minecraft 16w41a, Minecraft 16w42a, Minecraft 16w43a, Minecraft 16w44a, Minecraft 1.11 Pre-Release 1, Minecraft 1.11, Minecraft 16w50a, Minecraft 1.11.2, Minecraft 17w06a, Minecraft 17w13b, Minecraft 17w14a, Minecraft 17w15a, Minecraft 17w16b, Minecraft 17w17b, Minecraft 17w18a, Minecraft 1.12 Pre-Release 2, Minecraft 1.12 Pre-Release 3, Minecraft 1.12 Pre-Release 6, Minecraft 1.12, Minecraft 1.12.1, Minecraft 1.12.2 Pre-Release 1, Minecraft 1.12.2 Pre-Release 2, Minecraft 1.12.2, Minecraft 17w45b, Minecraft 17w49b, Minecraft 18w03b, Minecraft 18w05a, Minecraft 18w06a, Minecraft 18w08b, Minecraft 18w10d, Minecraft 18w11a, Minecraft 18w14b, Minecraft 18w15a, Minecraft 18w16a, Minecraft 18w20b, Minecraft 18w20c, Minecraft 18w21a, Minecraft 18w21b, Minecraft 18w22b, Minecraft 1.13-pre1, Minecraft 1.13-pre3, Minecraft 1.13-pre5, Minecraft 1.13-pre6, Minecraft 1.13-pre7, Minecraft 1.13, Minecraft 18w30b, Minecraft 1.13.1, Minecraft 1.13.2-pre1, Minecraft 1.13.2, Minecraft 18w44a, Minecraft 18w45a, Minecraft 18w46a, Minecraft 18w47b, Minecraft 18w49a, Minecraft 18w50a, Minecraft 19w03a, Minecraft 19w03b, Minecraft 19w03c, Minecraft 19w04b, Minecraft 19w05a, Minecraft 19w06a, Minecraft 19w07a, Minecraft 19w09a, Minecraft 1.14.1, Minecraft 1.14.2 Pre-Release 3, Minecraft 1.14.2, Minecraft 1.14.3 Pre-Release 2, Minecraft 1.14.3, Minecraft 1.14.4 Pre-Release 6, 1.14.4, 19w34a, 19w37a, 19w39a, 19w44a, 1.15.1, 20w06a, 20w08a, 20w14a, 20w16a, 20w20b, 20w21a, 1.16 Pre-release 2, 1.16 Release Candidate 1, 1.16, 1.16.1, 20w27a, 20w29a, 20w30a, 1.16.2 Release Candidate 1, 1.16.2 Release Candidate 2, 1.16.2, 1.16.3, 1.16.4 Pre-release 1, 1.16.4, 20w48a, 20w49a, 20w51a, 21w03a, 21w05b, 21w15a, 1.17.1, 21w39a, 21w41a, 1.18.1, 1.18.2, 22w18a, 1.19, 1.19.2, 1.19.3, 1.20.4, 1.20.6, 24w18a, 24w19b
Fix Version/s: None

Type: Bug
Reporter: Wulfdao Assignee: Unassigned
Resolution: Unresolved Votes: 136
Labels: fps-drop, lag, sign

Attachments: JPEG File 2012-06-23_16.21.01.jpg     PNG File 2012-08-15_10.26.18.png     PNG File 2012-12-22_12.00.17.png     PNG File 2012-12-22_12.04.36.png     PNG File 2012-12-22_12.19.33.png     PNG File 2012-12-22_12.21.45.png     PNG File 2012-12-22_13.06.00.png     PNG File 2020-12-02_20.22.51.png     PNG File 2021-10-19_21.43.16.png     PNG File 2022-12-08_22.48.03.png     Zip Archive Sign Shop.zip     Zip Archive world.zip    
Issue Links:
Duplicate
is duplicated by MC-56615 High Framerate Drop In the Presence o... Resolved
is duplicated by MC-62936 Horrible Frame rate when alot of maps... Resolved
is duplicated by MC-73277 signs do not seem to participate in o... Resolved
is duplicated by MC-100019 End Gateway FPS drop Resolved
is duplicated by MC-271606 Large numbers of tile entities holdin... Resolved
Relates
relates to MC-226966 Signs increase lots of lag when using... Open
relates to MC-5417 Large amount of chests and shulker bo... Reopened
relates to MC-1138 Item frames cause lag / huge FPS drop... Resolved
relates to MC-249635 Text rendering can heavily impact fra... Open
relates to MCPE-186385 Multiple signs take a large toll on p... Open
relates to MC-7895 Large amount of fences impact perform... Reopened
relates to MC-14983 Massive Lag when looking into directi... Resolved
relates to MC-252693 Huge FPS drop in areas with a lot of ... Resolved
relates to MC-258382 Huge FPS drop in areas with a lot of ... Resolved
relates to MC-260823 Banners with multiple pattern layers ... Resolved
CHK:
Confirmation Status: Confirmed
Category:
Performance, Rendering
Mojang Priority: Normal
Area: Platform

 Description   

The bug

Basically, signs and their characters are rendered over a very large distance. Now, this is fine for small stuff, like Survival Single Player, but for servers using iConomy chestshops, and building markets out of them, this turns into a nightmare.

I've witnessed fps drops from 134 fps to 5 fps due to this annoyance. There is a mod that fixed this problem, but not everyone is capable of modding that easily. Mostly happens on computers with low-end hardware.

Example

Below you can see a screenshot of a server-market I mean. It might not look that impressive from that angle, but believe me, walking through it reduced fps by something around 90%.

Now look at the second screenshot. Imagine the market filled.. Each shop averagely has about 15-20 chest-shops. that's about 15-20 signs each having at least more than 20 characters on em, averagely 25. The grid is 10x10 minus lets say.. 9 shops (middle and corners), makes 91. About every sign's text gets rendered when standing in there. There are probably like 75 random signs with other text spread through the market, each definitely having more than 40 chars, say 50 averagely?

Calculation: (20 * 20 * 91) + (50 * 75) = 36400 + 3750 = 40150 characters.

Potential fix

Please make a slider in the options menu that adjusts the character-on-sign rendering distance, perhaps make it change along with the "fast/fancy" render setting, it would be a huge relief to those that don't have the processing power to draw all those signs in a server-market. This would make a server-market a lot more viable use, instead of scaring people away because their computer can't handle it.



 Comments   
Comment by [Mod] Avoma [ 14/Sep/22 ]

Can confirm in 1.19.2.

Comment by [Mod] Avoma [ 08/Jun/22 ]

Can confirm in 1.19.

Comment by [Mod] Avoma [ 02/Mar/22 ]

Can confirm in 1.18.2.

Comment by [Mod] Avoma [ 14/Dec/21 ]

Can confirm in 1.18.1.

Comment by [Mod] ampolive [ 20/Oct/21 ]

Can confirm in 21w41a.

Comment by Iosiv Visokogorskiy [ 03/Oct/21 ]

In 21w39a

Comment by [Mod] Avoma [ 02/Dec/20 ]

Have done. 

Comment by [Helper] Johnibur [ 02/Dec/20 ]

@Avoma Can you provide a screenshot with alt-F3 graphs?

Comment by [Mod] Avoma [ 02/Dec/20 ]

Can confirm in 20w49a.

Comment by Dmitry Konev [ 02/Dec/20 ]

It's actually better in 20w49a

Comment by [Mod] Michael Wobst [ 02/Dec/20 ]

How is the performance with signs in 20w49a? Anyone noticing an improvement here?

Comment by [Mod] Avoma [ 25/Nov/20 ]

Can confirm in 20w48a.

Comment by pulpetti [ 07/Aug/20 ]

In 1.16.1 and 1.16.2 RC-1

Comment by Josiah Altschuler [ 16/Jul/20 ]

Can confirm that it happens in 1.16.1. Using an R7 1700X and RX 5500XT and my FPS was cut in half with about fifty signs in one area, some with text, some without (water elevator). FPS boosted back to nominal levels.

Comment by Iosiv Visokogorskiy [ 02/Jul/20 ]

still happens in 20w27a

Comment by Matthew [ 23/Jun/18 ]

Can confirm in 1.13-pre3.

Comment by Oscar Abrahamsson [ 24/Sep/17 ]

Issue remains in version 1.12.2.

Comment by Meri Diana [ 06/Aug/17 ]

Confirmed for 1.12.1.

Comment by Meri Diana [ 25/Jun/17 ]

Confirmed for 1.12 release.

Maybe the title could be changed, as there are generally FPS drops with all amassed block entities, as far as previous tests throughout the community yielded? And e.g. chests + end gateway portal block bugposts with this FPS drop issue were resolved as duplicate of this bugpost that only got "signs" in the title.

Would it be maybe good for a better overview to have a collection post that lists all block entity FPS drop issues?
Maybe with a FPS drop test analysis with all block entities in the same test setup, to figure which drops could be seen as "within normal range" and everything that goes above a certain amount of block entites as "Won't Fix" (analogue to MC-98822 with regular entities that got resolved as such)?

Comment by TwinShards [ 03/Feb/17 ]

I don't really know how they could/would fix that...
Because the real reason of why the Signs does make frame rate fps drop is because each sign have a texture.
If there is 700 Signs... it's likely like spawning 700 zombie...

Comment by [Mod] Michael Wobst [ 08/Jan/17 ]

Relates to MC-1138

Comment by Wade Davis [ 02/May/16 ]

It's 1.9.2 and it's becoming more important to fix this since you can reproduce this in Vanilla Singleplayer
Extreme FPS drop only when within a few chunks of JSON sign shop AND looking towards it... Heard it could be a few different reasons now (Lighting issues, Too much JSON, Due to loading text) and I've concluded it happens to all tile entities that store data (Item frames, Chests, etc.) even if there's no data stored.

This really needs to get sorted out if we're ever going to have a fully functional Vanilla Economy/Sign Shop alternative!
Here's my economy and sign shop I've been fiddling with for weeks (Reproduces Issue)

Forgot to add... Decreasing the distance they render at WON'T make a difference in my circumstance as I need all my 200 or so signs loaded and in clicking reach.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 24/Sep/15 ]

redstonehelper: Ok.

Comment by [Mod] redstonehelper [ 23/Sep/15 ]

Wulfdao: Gave you the issue since original reporter is invalid. Now you can update affected versions yourself.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 22/Sep/15 ]

Still exists in 15w39b.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 17/Sep/15 ]

Still exists in 15w38b.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 16/Sep/15 ]

Still exists in 15w38a.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 11/Sep/15 ]

Still exists on 15w37a.

Comment by Machiel van Dorst [ 03/Sep/15 ]

Some guy on reddit examined why text rendering is bad and how to fix it. I'm not that technical, but could that be the underlying issue here?

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/3ek0o7/why_text_rendering_is_horrible_how_it_can_be

Comment by Wulfdao [ 03/Sep/15 ]

Still exists in 15w36c.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 14/Jun/15 ]

Still exists in 1.8.7.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 23/May/15 ]

Still exists in 1.8.5.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 18/Apr/15 ]

Still exists in 1.8.4.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 23/Feb/15 ]

Still exists in 1.8.3.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 04/Jan/15 ]

Still exists in 1.8.2 pre1.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 03/Dec/14 ]

Still exists in 1.8.1.

Comment by Machiel van Dorst [ 15/Oct/14 ]

So signs and banners and the like (tile entities right?) are renderend no matter what once their chunk gets loaded. So it seems to mee that this issue won't be fixed until the way this stuff gets rendered is changed.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 20/Sep/14 ]

Still exists in 1.8.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 21/Aug/14 ]

Still exists in 14w34d.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 18/Aug/14 ]

Still exists in 14w34b.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 07/Aug/14 ]

Still exists in 14w32a.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 30/Jul/14 ]

Still exists in 14w31a.

Comment by Carl Wiles [ 25/Jul/14 ]

Even with the wonderful optimizations in 14w30, this still exists in a, b, and c.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 19/Jul/14 ]

Still exists in 14w29b.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 11/Jul/14 ]

Still exists in 14w28b.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 02/Jul/14 ]

Still exists in 14w27b.

Comment by Darren Straight [ 19/Feb/14 ]

I would also like to confirm this is still an issue on 1.7.4.

Comment by Carl Wiles [ 13/Feb/14 ]

This is certainly still an issue as of 1.7.4. Huge FPS drops in densly populated signage areas rendering "storage houses" useless.

Comment by Andrew Po [ 03/Jan/14 ]

This is an incredibly irritating issue on my Multiplayer server, players report FPS drops of 70-90% in areas densely populated by signs.
Adding a mod called MinecraftLFM ( http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1547522-162 ) fixes this problem and also fixes the sign colour rendering on certain laptops with Intel HD 3000 graphics.

Please look into this!

Comment by Grahame Skeavington [ 06/Dec/13 ]

This is correct and has been a problem for a long while. When I was building my 'Rise of the Rebellion' map the Tie-Fighter bay was made up of hundreds of pictures, the lag was terrible. I ended up having to remove all the pictures.

Comment by Darren Straight [ 25/Oct/13 ]

Been hoping this issue would disappear in each snapshot and the latest 1.7.1 pre-release, unfortunately however the issues persists. Such a shame as fixing this really would solve a lot of issues for players. Just need to stop text on signs being rendered when at a distance that you can't actually read the text.

Comment by Darren Straight [ 13/Sep/13 ]

I can confirm this is a massive issue in 1.6 and wasnt in 1.5. I have gone back to test the same copy of worlds in 1.5 and indeed no issues.

The main culprit as said above is signs with text on, blanks signs are not as bad on lowering FPS.

I went out in the wild where I was getting 80-100 FPS and generated a 255 block high wall containing wall signs (totalling 10200 signs) and measured the FPS, it was low but not as bad as I thought it would be, 25 FPS or so. I was getting worse in areas with less signs.

So I then decided to do the same again, 1 wall containing 10200 wall signs, but this time with every sign containing 4 lines of random text, as soon as I generated this my FPS decreased drastically, ranging from 2 - 8 FPS.

This of course was a bit of an overkill on signs, but it was an interesting test and made me find out that it was indeed signs with text on that caused the problem.

The problem is Minecraft seems to render the text even if you cant actually read it from far away, which in my opinion is pointless.

Ive been using optifine as a solution which only renders sign text when you are actually near enough to be able to read it but as we run a family friendly server with people of all ages, some of the younger ones are unsure how to install this or not allowed to by their parents.

it would be nice if the default client, did what optifine does.

Comment by Riking (Kane York) [ 20/Aug/13 ]

It appears that this issue has resurfaced in 1.6. I would implore the developers to examine the diff in the sign renderer, as this has been corroberated by multiple server owners - areas with 200+ signs cause FPS drops in 1.6 compared to 1.5 when they were fine.

Comment by Wulfdao [ 17/Jul/13 ]

I ran into this problem as well. The FPS drop is significant even when all signs are blank, and it gets measurably worse when each sign text is unique. The two attached schematics files can be used to demonstrate this.

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Feb/13 ]

The most awesome solution would still be.. To only render signs when they are within line of sight, with an addition of a slider for the maximum render distance.

Same with itemframes, they seem to cause similar lag issues for people.

Comment by Matteo [ 22/Feb/13 ]

I really hope to get this problem fixed in 1.5, the fix is simple, just make a configurable option that when you approach renders the signs.

I know that SpoutCraft client has an option like this and it optimize a lot the FPS drop! Also because many signs can be not renderized as they can be far from you and you can't see them.

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Dec/12 ]

I'm happy to help making this a better game

Hope Mojang will consider fixing this.

Comment by Kumasasa [ 22/Dec/12 ]

Thanks for your work, creating a ticket with a good documentation and reproduction steps.
My work is done here, the rest is up to Mojang.

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Dec/12 ]

As you can see, performance has improved a little bit, lets say 3 times the fps, but still pretty low.

The sluggish mouse movement is still there when walking though :\

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Dec/12 ]

There's an easy way to test that, will try it out, because I was wondering the same thing.

I'll just save the entire thing as a worldedit schematic, and then paste it again, it won't copy the data on the signs, so they will be blank.

I'll post the result asap.

EDIT: meh, it didn't work, will do it the hard way then.

EDIT: found another way, just turned all signs into signs again, now they are all empty, will show you in a screenshot asap

Comment by Kumasasa [ 22/Dec/12 ]

Does it make a difference in FPS, if there is text on the signs or if they are blank ?

Comment by Kumasasa [ 22/Dec/12 ]

Can confirm in SSP.
~40 FPS outside the structure, ~8 FPS inside.

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Dec/12 ]

world is attached, check world.zip, just consider it as a "save" and load it in minecraft SP. First screenshot is on SP, second one on MP, both on vanilla 1.4.6.

There were about 30 signs per structure, and there were 42 structures.

If you don't spawn near it, look for a 128 blocks tall glowstone tower

Can somebody please put this back to "unresolved"?

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Dec/12 ]

I reproduced it, will post the results asap, got me from 104 fps to 9 fps this time, with sluggish mouse response while walking, making the game barely playable.

EDIT:
-Confirmed on bukkit server 1.4.6
-Confirmed on vanilla SP 1.4.6
-Confirmed on vanilla MP server 1.4.6, will upload world and screenshots now.

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Dec/12 ]

Will try to do so, thank you for the quick response

Comment by Kumasasa [ 22/Dec/12 ]

Reproduce this issue with vanilla client and server.
At best you'll attach the created world here, so everyone can reproduce and confirm this.

Comment by Tenebrae [ 22/Dec/12 ]

Can this be re-opened please?

This is not a feature request.. It is a bug, because it makes the game unplayable for various people with slightly lower end systems in specific areas while it shouldn't.

Secondly, this is not about modded stuff, this already happens on a vanilla client, and the plugin creator had been asked already, but it's not a plugin issue, it's an issue with the allowed rendering of so incredibly many signs because the render distance is large, check the links I provided, there are people with the same problem.

This was tested on a bukkit server, and I will now try to prove this on both vanilla SP and vanilla MP, if I can find proof of the same sluggish performance, I want this ticket to be re-opened please.

I can tell you 100% it's true, because if a mod that reduces the render distance of the characters on signs actually helps, it would have NOTHING to do with the server being modded/bukkit/whatever.

Comment by Kumasasa [ 22/Dec/12 ]

This site is for bug reports only. For feature suggestions/changes please use the MineCraft Forums: Suggestions.

and

This ticket is invalid as it relates to a modded or 3rd party client/server.

  • Any non-standard client/server build needs to be taken up with the appropriate team, not Mojang.
  • Any plugin issues need to be addressed to the plugin creator.
  • This site is for addressing issues related to the base unmodded MineCraft
Generated at Sun Jan 12 12:07:00 UTC 2025 using Jira 9.12.2#9120002-sha1:301bf498dd45d800842af0b84230f1bb58606c13.